This is excellent. (Disclaimer: I too made the middle grades mistake of trying to convince my classmates to like Elvis.)
I don't actively hate The Eagles, but there is a sterility to the band — even after Joe Walsh joined — that I've never enjoyed. (It's truly not a surprise that they are a "classic rock" radio staple.)
Waits' comments about the band's "antiseptic sound" were astute, and with some exceptions, the songwriting had a fill in the blank element to it. Interestingly, I like each member's solo work (or work with other artists) far more, and repeatedly have found myself trying to give The Eagles another chance after Henley, Frey, or Walsh came out with a new album. But it has just never clicked.
Glad to finally meet a brother in arms in preaching the Elvis gospel in elementary school. While I don't regret what I did, it left scars that took forever to shed.
Like you, I find the stuff that members of the Eagles did outside the band far more interesting - something I wouldn't necessarily say about Led Zeppelin, another band whose appeal just passed me by.
I have a copy of Christgau's first book of rock criticism that I am looking forward to getting to soon (also excited to soon have a copy of Tricia Romano's history of the Voice).
Haha love it. I was into the Eagles in middle school, stealing records from my folks and probably just feeling that "Hotel California" (like "Free Bird") was epic and a necessity to like. Over time that appreciation festered into something that offered little to no room for The Eagles in my Life. I did appreciate the whole "Desperado"/"Witchy Woman" episode of Seinfeld, but that made fun and I could never understand why they were so popular. Since then I decided it was a kind of McDonald's music, billions served but I would never recommend it as a quality example of sound (or food). The Eagles had their revenge on me when I gave some old stereo equipment, including a record player, to my neighbors. They apparently had 1 Lp, The Long Run, which came through the wall every night for months. I almost had to take the stereo back...
I mean, I think the Eagles were super talented but the music just has a distance to it that obscures the obvious craft that went into it. It's something that isn't there with the music of many of their peers - for one example, James Taylor's music in the 70s has the same level of polish but invites the listener in. I never really feel that with the Eagles and particularly with something like 'The Long Run,' which is them at their most calculating and cool so I admire your restraint in not reclaiming the stereo from your neighbour.
My feelings about the Eagles are pretty simple: they're a good band but I've heard their music so much in my life that I don't think I ever need to hear it again.
I would also add that for me, I've just never felt the need to investigate their albums - what I've heard is about enough for me. Maybe one day I'll grab the debut which I expect may be the one album I might actually get something out of.
I'll try to keep an eye for it when crate digging. Not sure I've heard anything from it expect the title track and Tequila Sunrise (think that's on the album but not sure).
For two years One of These Nights was one of the only four albums played in the restaurant where my mother worked where I hung out everyday after school. The three tracks "One of These Nights", "Lyin' Eyes" and "Take It to the Limit" are scorched into my synapses.
Theses three tracks are both the slick, glossy commercialism of American rock that matured from the late sixties, and also masterclasses in songwriting, performance and production. It is hard to be objective about them as they are part of the fabric, the structure of the 70s, in the same way Dark Side of the Moon is, or Thriller is to the 80s. They just 'are', and to hate them is like trying to pretend bourbon and (double) denim doesn't exist.
Hotel California is a different kettle of fish. Let's not go there.
Again, I wouldn't say I hate the Eagles. As my essay tries to argue, my feelings are far more complicated than that. I have a definite predisposition to the principles that underline their music but their execution of them always leaves me conflicted.
Totally agree. For me these three tracks perfectly embody LA at the tipping from Robert Altman and other auteur directors' LA to the studio driven soulless monster LA/Hollywood has become now — of which Hotel California is it's theme song
I like the Eagles. I went to their last concert here in Seattle with 60,000 others and they played their tunes with such precision that I wrote down this thought for an essay I have yet to finish: “The Eagles have become the world’s greatest Eagles cover band.” I still like them.
It took me a while to complete the journey you’ve laid out here, Robert. Not because I lacked interest but because I knew listening carefully to each selection might alter my previous views.
I’m glad you began with that scene from The Big L because I didn’t understand why the Dude hated the Eagles so much. Now I think differently about that scene and that music.
But the real treat for me in this piece was the Linda Ronstadt LP, which I had somehow missed. Thanks for that and for another thoughtful and rewarding essay.
The Eagles. Man. Some of the first rock music I heard as a kid; then an object of unique hatred when I was coming up as a musician ("thanks" to Classic Rock radio, and the Nostalgia Industrial Complex blob that marginalized anything new from about 1987 on).
Now, I don't see any point in hating, or loving The Eagles; they were a product in tune with their time and place, reaped the benefits of millions of albums sold and a secure place in rock history. I save my hatred for the Nostalgia Industrial Complex now; who continues to make a point of denying the present so much cultural "bandwidth" with "established" products of the past.
Nothing about The Eagles' world really exists in rock n' roll today, the closest analogue might be Nashville "bro-country"; but the vision of that milieu is endlessly repackaged and re-sold by the NIC, and as a result, modern players and singers objectively equal to the task of greatness never get a look-in. Anyway, count me on the side of "broadening one's horizons", bc if we're gonna have any "Greats" at all 30 years from now, they gotta be fed up to that level today.
You make some interesting and quite valid points. That there isn't any point in hating or loving the Eagles is something that I think is the underlying theme of my essay.
I fear by myself writing mostly about older music, I may be part of Nostalgia Industrial Complex but at least what I write about is not stuff that has been written about endlessly and/or obsessively but I am thinking of way to hopefully broaden my focus as a writer and critic.
I think the Eagles’ blandness is a relative phenomenon dependent on the person’s other musical knowledge. I was exposed to the Eagles when I was 8 learning to play guitar, and I lived in a house where anything that wasn’t Meat Loaf or Jackson Browne was heresy (talk about bland…), and don’t even get my parents started on anything newer than that (this was in the 90’s, lol).
So the Eagles sounded just great to me at the time as I knew no other music. In my little childhood world they were the underground option. I remember thinking “Outlaw Man” was just the coolest song I’d ever heard because it’s the first time I ever learned what an E minor chord was - the song is extremely forgettable now, but even knowing that, it’s hard to get past that childhood connection.
Their music has plenty of soul in my book - but it’s more like a nice, well-lit photograph that’s Photoshopped until it’s flawless. A little too flawless for some. Instagram rock. That doesn’t make it bad to me, it just puts it in a specific category of good.
Excellent piece. I don’t have strong feelings for or against the Eagles but the points you make are so relatable across genres and generations.
You’ve nailed it in your last paragraph when you talk about this balance between loyalty to our taste but being open enough to reconsider from time to time.
I get Tom Waits, Linda Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell, and, yes, the Eagles in once piece. Pretty hip.
I believe I wrote about going through a bit of a Tom Waits fascination the past few years. It continues. Additionally, my partner, who started taking vocal lessons from my vocal coach is working on both a Joni Mitchell and a Linda Ronstadt tune.
I mentioned Joni on my recent video about open tunings.
Add to that, I keep saying I'm going to watch the Big Lebowski - but have yet to do so. (shhh...)
Which begs the question: Did you bug our home to get inspiration for this piece?
Thanks for this essay which, I must confess, mirrors my own ambivalence about the Eagles music. Bland is a good way to describe the band's catalogue though 'Already Gone' is a great guitar song (of course it wasn't written by the band, however). For me, the stories and rumors of backstage (near) fisticuffs, Felder's firing, underage dalliances, and massive egos taints any enjoyment I get from their songs.
And definitely do yourself a favor, settle in with a White Russian (or beverage of your choice), bathrobe, and a nice rug that really ties the room together and watch The Big Lebowski.
A nice article; thorough and fair. I appreciate the lengthy discussion of Linda Rondstadt; someone I respect but have never been particularly drawn to.
Thanks so much. I forgot that 'Jesus Was a Cross Maker' was about Souther.
I am a huge Linda Ronstadt fan - I got seriously into her music about 11 years ago and her music helped me get through a tough time. One day, I shall write an essay exclusively about her.
I understand, and that prompts an interesting through. David Bowie's _Ziggy Stardust_ album helped me get through a tough time, and I think there was something about the combination of deep emotion and also artificiality that helped me process my emotions while keeping them at a little bit of distance.
Normally I'm a fan of music that feels more emotionally direct, but in that case it felt like a little bit of indirection was helpful (again, not that it wasn't emotion, but that the performance was displaying emotion that had been processed, rather than raw), and, for me, I have a similar reaction to Linda Rondstadt.
As a side note, I did really enjoy the documentary about her a few years ago.
Agree about the documentary. It's interesting to what music helps someone out during tough times so appreciate you sharing about Bowie's Ziggy Stardust album.
First off Robert you should watch "The Big Lebowski". It is very funny. I did not see it when it first came out in the late 90's. There used to be a store in Brooklyn named "The Big Lebowski". The owner wore a bathrobe. One day Jeff Bridges came into the store and the owner was a little shocked. Jeff Bridges then stood by the door making like he was a robot when customers came in.
I was never a huge Eagles fan either but I do like "Hotel California". Linda Ronstadt's "Frenesí" is a fine album. Her voice is strong plus she has a host of phenomenal musicians on the album.
As a fan of the Eagles, I really appreciated this post! Really articulate, beautifully written. I'll shout out my favorite song, New Kid in Town, which also seems to echo the feeling of a page turning, or "the second chapter of California as a musical mecca. The end of sunshine pop and psychedelic rock" that you describe.
This is excellent. (Disclaimer: I too made the middle grades mistake of trying to convince my classmates to like Elvis.)
I don't actively hate The Eagles, but there is a sterility to the band — even after Joe Walsh joined — that I've never enjoyed. (It's truly not a surprise that they are a "classic rock" radio staple.)
Waits' comments about the band's "antiseptic sound" were astute, and with some exceptions, the songwriting had a fill in the blank element to it. Interestingly, I like each member's solo work (or work with other artists) far more, and repeatedly have found myself trying to give The Eagles another chance after Henley, Frey, or Walsh came out with a new album. But it has just never clicked.
Glad to finally meet a brother in arms in preaching the Elvis gospel in elementary school. While I don't regret what I did, it left scars that took forever to shed.
Like you, I find the stuff that members of the Eagles did outside the band far more interesting - something I wouldn't necessarily say about Led Zeppelin, another band whose appeal just passed me by.
Christgau was able to hang an entire career on discovering his hate of corporate rock, embodied perfectly by the gloss of the Eagles.
I have a copy of Christgau's first book of rock criticism that I am looking forward to getting to soon (also excited to soon have a copy of Tricia Romano's history of the Voice).
The Christagau lines quotes in the post are good and memorable.
Haha love it. I was into the Eagles in middle school, stealing records from my folks and probably just feeling that "Hotel California" (like "Free Bird") was epic and a necessity to like. Over time that appreciation festered into something that offered little to no room for The Eagles in my Life. I did appreciate the whole "Desperado"/"Witchy Woman" episode of Seinfeld, but that made fun and I could never understand why they were so popular. Since then I decided it was a kind of McDonald's music, billions served but I would never recommend it as a quality example of sound (or food). The Eagles had their revenge on me when I gave some old stereo equipment, including a record player, to my neighbors. They apparently had 1 Lp, The Long Run, which came through the wall every night for months. I almost had to take the stereo back...
I mean, I think the Eagles were super talented but the music just has a distance to it that obscures the obvious craft that went into it. It's something that isn't there with the music of many of their peers - for one example, James Taylor's music in the 70s has the same level of polish but invites the listener in. I never really feel that with the Eagles and particularly with something like 'The Long Run,' which is them at their most calculating and cool so I admire your restraint in not reclaiming the stereo from your neighbour.
My feelings about the Eagles are pretty simple: they're a good band but I've heard their music so much in my life that I don't think I ever need to hear it again.
I would also add that for me, I've just never felt the need to investigate their albums - what I've heard is about enough for me. Maybe one day I'll grab the debut which I expect may be the one album I might actually get something out of.
The second album, Desperado, is short and a great listen - to my ears anyway!
I'll try to keep an eye for it when crate digging. Not sure I've heard anything from it expect the title track and Tequila Sunrise (think that's on the album but not sure).
It is indeed.
For two years One of These Nights was one of the only four albums played in the restaurant where my mother worked where I hung out everyday after school. The three tracks "One of These Nights", "Lyin' Eyes" and "Take It to the Limit" are scorched into my synapses.
Theses three tracks are both the slick, glossy commercialism of American rock that matured from the late sixties, and also masterclasses in songwriting, performance and production. It is hard to be objective about them as they are part of the fabric, the structure of the 70s, in the same way Dark Side of the Moon is, or Thriller is to the 80s. They just 'are', and to hate them is like trying to pretend bourbon and (double) denim doesn't exist.
Hotel California is a different kettle of fish. Let's not go there.
Again, I wouldn't say I hate the Eagles. As my essay tries to argue, my feelings are far more complicated than that. I have a definite predisposition to the principles that underline their music but their execution of them always leaves me conflicted.
Speaking of 'Hotel California,' I did go there with the help of Tim Riley. Here are his thoughts on the album: https://www.listeningsessions.ca/p/tim-riley-rural-jurors and here are mine: https://rileyrockreport.substack.com/p/the-no-fun-zone-of-hotel-california?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=web
Totally agree. For me these three tracks perfectly embody LA at the tipping from Robert Altman and other auteur directors' LA to the studio driven soulless monster LA/Hollywood has become now — of which Hotel California is it's theme song
Hard to disagree with this.
I like the Eagles. I went to their last concert here in Seattle with 60,000 others and they played their tunes with such precision that I wrote down this thought for an essay I have yet to finish: “The Eagles have become the world’s greatest Eagles cover band.” I still like them.
Hope you finish the essay - would definitely like to read it.
It took me a while to complete the journey you’ve laid out here, Robert. Not because I lacked interest but because I knew listening carefully to each selection might alter my previous views.
I’m glad you began with that scene from The Big L because I didn’t understand why the Dude hated the Eagles so much. Now I think differently about that scene and that music.
But the real treat for me in this piece was the Linda Ronstadt LP, which I had somehow missed. Thanks for that and for another thoughtful and rewarding essay.
Thanks so much, Andrew. Flattered that take such an immersive approach to what I write - thank you!
The Eagles. Man. Some of the first rock music I heard as a kid; then an object of unique hatred when I was coming up as a musician ("thanks" to Classic Rock radio, and the Nostalgia Industrial Complex blob that marginalized anything new from about 1987 on).
Now, I don't see any point in hating, or loving The Eagles; they were a product in tune with their time and place, reaped the benefits of millions of albums sold and a secure place in rock history. I save my hatred for the Nostalgia Industrial Complex now; who continues to make a point of denying the present so much cultural "bandwidth" with "established" products of the past.
Nothing about The Eagles' world really exists in rock n' roll today, the closest analogue might be Nashville "bro-country"; but the vision of that milieu is endlessly repackaged and re-sold by the NIC, and as a result, modern players and singers objectively equal to the task of greatness never get a look-in. Anyway, count me on the side of "broadening one's horizons", bc if we're gonna have any "Greats" at all 30 years from now, they gotta be fed up to that level today.
You make some interesting and quite valid points. That there isn't any point in hating or loving the Eagles is something that I think is the underlying theme of my essay.
I fear by myself writing mostly about older music, I may be part of Nostalgia Industrial Complex but at least what I write about is not stuff that has been written about endlessly and/or obsessively but I am thinking of way to hopefully broaden my focus as a writer and critic.
I think the Eagles’ blandness is a relative phenomenon dependent on the person’s other musical knowledge. I was exposed to the Eagles when I was 8 learning to play guitar, and I lived in a house where anything that wasn’t Meat Loaf or Jackson Browne was heresy (talk about bland…), and don’t even get my parents started on anything newer than that (this was in the 90’s, lol).
So the Eagles sounded just great to me at the time as I knew no other music. In my little childhood world they were the underground option. I remember thinking “Outlaw Man” was just the coolest song I’d ever heard because it’s the first time I ever learned what an E minor chord was - the song is extremely forgettable now, but even knowing that, it’s hard to get past that childhood connection.
Their music has plenty of soul in my book - but it’s more like a nice, well-lit photograph that’s Photoshopped until it’s flawless. A little too flawless for some. Instagram rock. That doesn’t make it bad to me, it just puts it in a specific category of good.
Thanks for your perspective here! Appreciate you sharing it.
Excellent piece. I don’t have strong feelings for or against the Eagles but the points you make are so relatable across genres and generations.
You’ve nailed it in your last paragraph when you talk about this balance between loyalty to our taste but being open enough to reconsider from time to time.
As always, a pleasure to read.
Thank you, Andres. Appreciate the kind words.
I get Tom Waits, Linda Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell, and, yes, the Eagles in once piece. Pretty hip.
I believe I wrote about going through a bit of a Tom Waits fascination the past few years. It continues. Additionally, my partner, who started taking vocal lessons from my vocal coach is working on both a Joni Mitchell and a Linda Ronstadt tune.
I mentioned Joni on my recent video about open tunings.
Add to that, I keep saying I'm going to watch the Big Lebowski - but have yet to do so. (shhh...)
Which begs the question: Did you bug our home to get inspiration for this piece?
Thanks for the kind words. As to where I got my inspiration, I'm not at liberty to divulge (LOL).
Thanks for this essay which, I must confess, mirrors my own ambivalence about the Eagles music. Bland is a good way to describe the band's catalogue though 'Already Gone' is a great guitar song (of course it wasn't written by the band, however). For me, the stories and rumors of backstage (near) fisticuffs, Felder's firing, underage dalliances, and massive egos taints any enjoyment I get from their songs.
And definitely do yourself a favor, settle in with a White Russian (or beverage of your choice), bathrobe, and a nice rug that really ties the room together and watch The Big Lebowski.
'Already Gone' has a good drive to it - kind of a companion piece to 'Take It Easy.'
I shall watch 'The Big Lebowski' - I can imagine I will enjoy it immensely.
I like the Eagles. I don’t know why they get so muck flak; well, I thing they’re often criticised for not being the band they never set out to be.
The songs ‘Desperado’ and ‘The Last Resort’ are supreme examples of songwriting and performance.
That's a fair point about the Eagles.
A nice article; thorough and fair. I appreciate the lengthy discussion of Linda Rondstadt; someone I respect but have never been particularly drawn to.
I will note, in passing, that I was just looking into a Judee Sill song ( https://substack.com/@earnestnessisunderrated/note/c-49333672 ) and J.D. Souther does not come across well in that store.
Thanks so much. I forgot that 'Jesus Was a Cross Maker' was about Souther.
I am a huge Linda Ronstadt fan - I got seriously into her music about 11 years ago and her music helped me get through a tough time. One day, I shall write an essay exclusively about her.
I understand, and that prompts an interesting through. David Bowie's _Ziggy Stardust_ album helped me get through a tough time, and I think there was something about the combination of deep emotion and also artificiality that helped me process my emotions while keeping them at a little bit of distance.
Normally I'm a fan of music that feels more emotionally direct, but in that case it felt like a little bit of indirection was helpful (again, not that it wasn't emotion, but that the performance was displaying emotion that had been processed, rather than raw), and, for me, I have a similar reaction to Linda Rondstadt.
As a side note, I did really enjoy the documentary about her a few years ago.
Agree about the documentary. It's interesting to what music helps someone out during tough times so appreciate you sharing about Bowie's Ziggy Stardust album.
First off Robert you should watch "The Big Lebowski". It is very funny. I did not see it when it first came out in the late 90's. There used to be a store in Brooklyn named "The Big Lebowski". The owner wore a bathrobe. One day Jeff Bridges came into the store and the owner was a little shocked. Jeff Bridges then stood by the door making like he was a robot when customers came in.
I was never a huge Eagles fan either but I do like "Hotel California". Linda Ronstadt's "Frenesí" is a fine album. Her voice is strong plus she has a host of phenomenal musicians on the album.
One day I shall watch the movie - I expect it is right up my alley.
As a fan of the Eagles, I really appreciated this post! Really articulate, beautifully written. I'll shout out my favorite song, New Kid in Town, which also seems to echo the feeling of a page turning, or "the second chapter of California as a musical mecca. The end of sunshine pop and psychedelic rock" that you describe.
Thank you, Brandon. Glad you liked it, especially as an Eagles fan.